Harvest Christian Fellowship is a megachurch in Riverside, California. Dallas Jenkins stood with his arms crossed, facing the sunrise, a swath of orange clouds brushing the blue-gray mountains and yellow sky. He has not let us down, and even now is exposing these wolves. Your comments often put me in mind of the older and wiser men I knew in church when I was young. With so much at stake, it can be very tempting to cut corners for the sake of what is viewed as a larger good. Truth is real. Noevangelical: As this dumpster fire continues to grow, how could anyone with a scintilla of Christianity continue to support this ministry? Shame on you. There have been many people demanding our statements be made public, and now that they are, are rejoicing in that, all while commenting from anonymous online handles. Max: Praise God for TWW and other watchblogs who do their best to get the word out on these guys, but you cant stop the spiritually illiterate from attending their exciting churches. That changed on Friday. They began by gathering in an unused TV studio. In fact, I raised my coffee cup in their honor this morning and said to the pugs, May they get their money back.. chosen by the hand of Jesus? The Story of Alleged Abuse at Sankey Orphanage in the Philippines and Its Relationship to Christ Community Chapel, Tom Randall, and Joe Coffey, Former Harvest Bible Chapel Members Want $72,000 In Donations Refunded, After Pastor James MacDonaldFired, https://swbts.edu/news/releases/game-banquet-uses-hunting-venue-spread-gospel/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwSTe9uit48, http://churchbuildingministry.org/who-we-are/, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+chosen+producers+james+macdonald&t=ffsb&ia=web, http://www.wsop.com/players/profile/?playerid=72494, http://www.globalpokerindex.com/poker-players/frederick-adams-169223/, https://classroom.synonym.com/the-role-of-the-clergy-in-the-greek-orthodox-church-12087637.html, https://www.archbalt.org/clergy-personnel-division/bishops-priests-deacons/. I prayed for your father-in-law and your family just now. Unless it was a danger to someone. Hours . Even the FAQ section of this blog states Dee and Deb are interested in conflict, and I am graciously assuming they mean to help resolve it, not continue or inflame it. Maybe thats why the history of the church is a history of exodus from established groups and setting up of new ones? Jerry Jenkins "James and the elders at Harvest have assured us that they are in the process of seeking out every person who has expressed an offense or criticism, with the intention of meeting with them personally, hearing them out, and making things right," Jenkins wrote. We the elders fully support him in everything he does. I REMEMBER STORIES OF FREAKOUTS AND LONG-TERM TERROR REACTIONS FROM CHURCH SCREENINGS OF THIEF IN THE NIGHT WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT FROM DOING THE SAME TO YOUNGER KIDS WITH PASSION OF THE CHRIST? I know exactly what you mean. They want the best, and so does God. Rich: I think theres a massive problem with the deference thats given to pastors and other religious leaders. As for your dig at anonymous people, you are hoping to do the same thing. DallasHow selfishIs it all about you?Or, is your statement for the greater good of countless others? Were certainly no better in terms of our basic humanity, but we may have the benefit of a lot of hindsight. https://theelephantsdebt.com/2017/06/19/headed-to-the-big-house-for-the-sake-of-jesus/. There was no glory or wealth in being a shepherd, once one of the more despised positions due to its lowliness. Today, CBS Chicago featuredFormer Harvest Bible Chapel Members Want $72,000 In Donations Refunded, After Pastor James MacDonaldFired. We should not be surprised that the battle between the false and the true rages on, and should continue to cling to the true, whatever the cost. Thompson started questioning MacDonalds spending in 2006, when he saw the pastors home in Inverness featured in Chicago magazine. Forget about the so called leaders. Heard somewhere; Hell never be a great man.. Abigail: Why would anyone want to kill a magnificent creature like that? Churchgoers in 21st century America are just too gullible to keep these folks out of the pulpit. Gathering during this time was unique. Walking in the light means not having to cover anything up and not belly aching when God Himself is the one shouting truth and revealing things from His Mountaintop. Dallas Jenkins: Every weekend we open the word of God and study the truth He has revealed to us. Gut tells me hes just another narcissist, and this latest incarnation is another game. Both HBC & WC had a plurality of elders and a single pastor as the head of their church. Spend a moment praying to God before you begin reading. GOD SAITH!!!!!. Talk is cheap lets see some action. Wasnt it Groucho Marx who once quipped, I would never join an organization who would have me as a member? You wanted your letter to remain in the dark and hoped that no one would know of your hidden statement. 3/2/2023 - 9:30am-11:30am. Dont get me wrong, Pauls writings have many great and wonderful things to say, but when the descriptive gets blurred with the universally prescriptive, what results is just another destructive ideology. AND PREACHER-MAN INFLICTED THAT ON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KIDS? It appears he has been a poser, a bully and a thug for a very long time. Driscoll was a featured speaker at that event last year. Im holding out hope that my faith in God will survive, but truth be told, some days that seems uncertain as well (, Ex HBC staff, thank you for sharing your pain. That is part of our fallen world. Their influence will spread exponentially once decentralized. Dallas, his dad Jerry Jenkins, and James MacDonald also played poker together. Give them what they want in the present, and they wont care about the past. 37 were here. PRESBUTEROS = EPISKOPOS = POIMEN Ken F (aka Tweed): Vincent is a coward: came to an old thread less likely to be read and didnt stick around to answer for his comment. Ishy: Noevangelical: So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? In fact, you can take it a lot farther than that. Thats why Im asking LLS (and Ken/Tweed, if he wants) how do these worship men, not God structures ever have any mechanisms at all to keep from going wildly off the rails? The bit about only a unanimous vote of their executive council being able to remove the lead pastor theres a recipe for success when grievous wolves are not unexpected. What in the world is going on? IMO, most people attend church to replace the lost family and community modern society has sacrificed. I just wonder how much of my tithes went to support their gambling problem. Vincent: you must have first hand knowledge and part of that fellowship in some fashion. I initially read that as bought him years of support.Same thing I guess. Bridget: I dont know, Ken. In all honesty, Dallas, since Mac and those around him, including you, took great delight in his being a very public ministry with great influence and far reach, this is a matter for public airing. Sadly, many have not served well. Like they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff? That ship has sailed, and size is no guarantee greed and corruption will not take over even the smallest group or home church. If after that then the church must seek to cut off the relationship so that the sinner may be held account and that you may reach him towards restoring him. Regarding the tragic murder of that bear, I wouldnt be too rough on JMac perhaps he was using that as a witness to draw in rough boys from the streets of Chicago. It could very well be that Christianity is at the tipping point where believers realize that they are doing church without God where they have put their faith in religious systems of assorted belief and practice, rather than building a personal relationship with Christ. Milholland did this exact same thing at his former church, Hope Church in Memphis. Trust me, youre not. It was then that the whole sham of our relationship was exposed, and when I rebuffed him he moved on to someone else. I share this for all who, like me, are overcome with new sadness, pain and loss amidst the HBC, Willow, Catholic church, ECFA, SBC, GFA, etc. He is not egotistical, and not, as is so falsely asserted, all about getting glory he is all about stepping through the barriers of time and space to reveal his gentle, sacrificial love for us. . I was really hoping I would find that this was a much later development. Through the generosity of the Green family, the founders of Hobby Lobby, we received the entire property for one dollar. As Lauren Diagle says it so very well: Im losing my religion/ To find You/ Im losing my religion, and finding something new/ Cause I need something different/ And different looks like You/. Indeed. Wonderful, on point comment. The images of Christs mother Mary witnessing her sons torture, the glances and faces of the cast Mel Gibson portrayed were (and frankly still are) made to elicit deep evil and were very frightening to see, and the utter agony of Christs pain was so graphic, I still cant erase it from my memory. holy I wish that the decision to be a public figure in this scandal was left to the individual, not to third parties. (just like Adam hearkening to his wife in the garden huh?) 4107 N Steele Blvd, Fayetteville, AR, 72703, United States. In preparation for the milestone anniversary of 30 years, it seemed fitting to host all our campuses together for Good Friday and Easter Sunday at the Sears Centre Arena. Seriously, I believe 100% that the theological DNA is the problem, and that Truth was genetically modified centuries ago. To no avail, because his problem is not that he struggles with imperfection but that he is a fake, a phony, a self-seeking narcissist who manipulates and abuses others for self profit and aggrandizement. Its like dj vu all over again. -Yogi Berra. Turns out that he was looking to fulfill his succession plan all along, and was just cycling thru people until he found one that fit. Rather, it appears that the early church looked much more Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Anglican than low-church protestant. Be imitators of God, as dearly loved children, and live a life of love, even as Christ loved us and gave Himself for us. The Harvest Academy high school incident gets discussed quite a bit. 7,646 were here. Pingback: Quote for the day | Civil Commotion, When was this statement made and to whom? Dallas Jenkins produced the independent feature Hometown Legend at the age of 25 and shepherded it to distribution by Warner Brothers. As Max has said, its hard to see how the institutions recover from this. I certainly have my doubts that Paul would be rejoicing over the likes of MacDonald, Hybels, Driscoll, and countless others who have taken advantage of the Body of Christ over the last 2,000 years. In reality both of you have despised the real Jesus and have lived a life promoting a false one that does not care how much you made or JMac. Forgive MacDonald if he genuinely repents? Vincent, TWW has relayed first hand knowledge about JMac from his elders and personal assistant to the church at large, lest he try to maneuver his way into another corner of Christendom. John: JMac should never pastor another church ever. For the one or two people who read ALL the way through these comments to my own. Maybe we should have been, and still should be, picketing in front of Driscolls new church, handing out pamphlets including some of his more famous woman-degrading statements? I am not saying that I am a proponent of hierarchy. You sound like an attorney who just sent me a letter stating that I posted false statements by a victim. Dallas, I want to also say in all gentleness- I know youd like to be in control but you cant be. Max: Thats why the early church had congregational governance, rather than elder rule polity the Body of Christ had a say in who the church leaders were. Now if some pastor or group of elders is abusing people, then gloves off. Why, dontcha know God inspired Paul to speak his thoughts, and me your trusted pastor to interpret them rightly? And he didnt say crap, at least publicly. Why would anyone want to kill a magnificent creature like that? All who have enriched themselves in the name of serving God and on the backs of the working people are suspect, as that is certainly not what we were called to, nor a reflection of the sacrificial love of Jesus who came to serve. * Apparently, many of the leaders sent their kids to Harvest Academy and there is fear that their kids will be thrown out of school. We have seen through the falsity of that which proclaims itself the infallible voice of God. For me I choose to pray and let God work, he never ceases to amaze especially when he answers prayer. For our setting and ministries, it would be very difficult. I was in a back and forth with some supporters of another well-known abusive megachurch leader recently, and one of the fans of the leader assumed I was posting under a made-up name and then slammed me for my cowardice as being anonymous. It is very difficult to regain trust when the most trusted abuse it. We challenge students to develop strong academic skills and provide opportunities to become a well-rounded person through participation . not violent The elders, set in place by God Himself (Ephesians 4:11), are to watch over, tend to and care for the flock of God. This man has no shame. elastigirl: you are a very comforting presence here, Max. Thats all it takes, my friend. I can only imagine what was said as explanation, particularly as my spouse (still blindly loyal) remained much longer than I, until our children put up a united appeal to leave. I am sorry you and your family experienced that. The Niles Campus became our third location in 2004. Does that make you manly? Sad. Like they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff? Most of those Ive heard and experienced who tout elder-rule polity will say that this passage says anything but pew peons having any say in elder or pastor selection and/or accountability. Let him call for the elders [PRESBUTEROS] of the church, and let them pray over him (James 5:14). Sadly, it is not uncommon to find that in time of great loss, the church is not really there for them after all, that in case of health problems that make one unable to serve, they are quickly forgotten, that the great majority of those friendships have a tendency to evaporate or even turn to shunning if put to the test; that it was all a grand illusion, after all the time, effort and loyalty invested. Single pastor, plural pastors, plurality of elders, are pastors even a thing? Howard Hughes. All of the above is not an option, but it seems hard to pick one over any other. Redemption is a gift, freely offered to one and all. May you feel Gods presence and peace in the days ahead. 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